Driving past the Seventh-day Adventist church in Surrey, BC my friend Martin glanced at the parking lot and saw an elderly lady changing the outdoor church sign. What I now believe to have been divine providence, Martin turned into the church parking lot and began a conversation with the lady that ended up with my friend leaving with a few VHS tapes by Walter Veith and Kenneth Cox. Bringing them next week to our round-table home fellowship group we decided to watch one of the videos. The rest they say is history. The videos by Walter Veith produced by Amazing Discoveries allowed me to see that the spiritualism that I had been in previously was totally against the Bible record and the truth that Jesus was the the only way for salvation became crystal clear. The videos opened the book of Revelation to me and gave me an understanding of the beasts in Revelation as well as the Mark of the Beast. I became a Seventh-day Adventist in 2004. The now “Total Onslaught” series is the newer version of the same series that I had watched that helped me to trust in the Word of God more than the secular belief the world was promoting. I am truly indebted to the work that Walter Veith and his team have done in spreading the truth by showing the deceptions of the world.
Looking back and thinking about the old VHS tape series in green, I don’t remember ever hearing Walter Veith teach the Trinity doctrine on those recordings. Recently coming into the truth about Jesus being the true Son of God I was curious to know what Walter Veith had to say about the trinity and the 3-in-1 and 1-in-3 “mystery of God”. I had the privilege of talking to Walter Veith many years ago and I remember him quizzing me on certain subjects. He asked me what I knew about Futurism and Preterism. Let me tell you, I didn’t know much. He asked me about other subjects and I then had personal experience that Dr. Veith is truly a teacher at heart. Even a one on one encounter with me gave me a sense that Walter really cared about teaching the truth. I respect Walter Veith and pray that many more people may come out of the deceptions of the world and into the truth that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation.
Fast forward 11 years of being a member of the Seventh-day Adventist church and I recently have come to the truth about God. I have found out that our Pioneers of the Adventist church truly believed something different than the current Seventh-day Adventist doctrine of the Godhead. I have found that there were deceptions in our church and changing of books to harmonize more with Evangelicals in the teaching of the trinity.
If I had Walter Veith’s phone number I would like to call him and sincerely ask him what he believes about the trinity doctrine of our church that has slowly crept in shortly after the death of Ellen White. I would like to hear him confidently proclaim the truth that Jesus is the true Son of God and explain to me that God is not a 3-in-1 and a 1-in-3 God. With confidence I would like to hear him say that Jesus truly is the begotten Son of God and explain to me what the word begotten truly means. I would like to ask him to do a video presentation such as the documentary I recently watched entitled Theos: The Begotten Belief.
I hope one day I will see Walter Veith record a presentation on the Seventh-day Adventist doctrine of the Trinity. The research that I have done today August 30th, 2015 on what Amazing Discoveries currently believes about the Trinity is the following:
Amazing Discoveries Trinity YouTube Video Removed
1.) Pastor Victor Gill created a video on the Trinity and interestingly it was removed. I had a chance to watch the video before it was removed and it encouraged the belief in the Trinity doctrine that God is a unity of three coeternal Persons. I was disappointed with the video. The arguments were weak. The scripture proof texts were not solid. The video was located here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j-tWGoaA6U&feature=youtu.be and the amazing discoveries media link was here: http://amazingdiscoveries.tv/media/1610/can-you-explain-the-trinity-7126/
Amazing Discoveries removed this video on the Trinity and was entitled “Can You Explain The Trinity / Bible Answers – Victor Gill.
Facebook Users Comment On Amazing Discoveries Trinity Video
2.) Amazing Discoveries posted the Bible question about the Trinity to Facebook on February 6, 2014 and there was much feedback from it’s followers. The comments were for 6 days until February 12, 2014, 11:48am before they stopped all of a sudden. In total there were thirty two comments with some people commenting more than once. The question about the Trinity doctrine is a great question to ask. Why go silent? Why is there no Total Onslaught video on the trinity? John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. It’s definitely an important subject if eternal life is based on knowing the Father and the Son.
Amazing Discoveries Answers If The Trinity Is Pagan?
3.) On May 10, 2012 a question was posted and answered on the Amazing Discoveries Knowledgebase (a question and answer site) asking “Is the Trinity a Pagan Concept?” The answer by Amazing Discoveries was: “The Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible, but the concept is. However, the word Godhead is in the Bible, and it refers to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.” I’m hoping they will remove this answer shortly like they did for the YouTube video because the topic deserves more than two sentences and they do not provide any evidence unlike the strong evidence found in other Bible topics they share. Notice the comment in the picture below in regards to the answer AD has provided.
‘Father’ and ‘Son’ Removed from Arabic and Turkish Translations
4.) Here is a blog post entitled ‘Father’ and ‘Son’ ousted from the Trinity in New Bible Translations. Yahoo News removed the link but Amazing Discoveries short blog post can be found here:
http://amazingdiscoveries.org/AD-news-12.01.27-father-and-son-ousted-from-the-trinity-in-new-bible-translations
This article has nothing to do with Amazing Discoveries belief and they did not create this article. They are only passing the information along. I found the complete article on another website and am placing it below for your interest because it highlights the direction we are heading when we don’t believe in the literal relationship of the Father and the Son. Note how these Bible translations that remove the “Son of God” could actually be more in favour of the Trinity doctrine because many pastors and theologians are re-defining the “Son of God” to mean someone completely different than the only begotten Son of God. These translations from my viewpoint are taking out the filial language of the Bible and the strong inference of the Father and Son relationship.
‘Father’ and ‘Son’ Ousted from the Trinity in New Bible Translations
A controversy is brewing over three reputable Christian organizations, which are based in North America, whose efforts have ousted the words “Father” and “Son” from new Bibles. Wycliffe Bible Translators, Summer Institute of Linguistics (SIL) and Frontiers are under fire for “producing Bibles that remove “Father,” “Son” and “Son of God” because these terms are offensive to Muslims.”
Concerned Christian missionaries, Bible translators, pastors, and national church leaders have come together with a public petition to stop these organizations. They claim a public petition is their last recourse because meetings with these organizations’ leaders, staff resignations over this issue and criticism and appeals from native national Christians concerned about the translations “have failed to persuade these agencies to retain “Father” and “Son” in the text of all their translations.”
Biblical Missiology, a ministry of Boulder, Colorado-based Horizon International, is sponsoring the petition.
The main issues of this controversy surround new Arabic and Turkish translations. Here are three examples native speakers give:
First, Wycliffe and SIL have produced Stories of the Prophets, an Arabic Bible that uses an Arabic equivalent of “Lord” instead of “Father” and “Messiah” instead of “Son.”
Second, Frontiers and SIL have produced Meaning of the Gospel of Christ , an Arabic translation which removes “Father” in reference to God and replaces it with “Allah,” and removes or redefines “Son.” For example, the verse which Christians use to justify going all over the world to make disciples, thus fulfilling the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19) reads, “Cleanse them by water in the name of Allah, his Messiahand his Holy Spirit” instead of “baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” Rev. Bassam Madany, an Arab American who runs Middle East Resources, terms these organization’s efforts as “a western imperialistic attempt that’s inspired by cultural anthropology, and not by biblical theology.”
Third, Frontiers and SIL have produced a new Turkish translation of the Gospel of Matthew that uses Turkish equivalents of “guardian” for “Father” and “representative” or “proxy” for “Son.” To Turkish church leader Rev. Fikret Böcek, “This translation is ‘an all-American idea’ with absolutely no respect for the ‘sacredness’ of Scripture, or even of the growing Turkish church.”
SIL has issued a public response stating “all personnel subscribe to a statement of faith which affirms the Trinity, Christ’s deity, and the inspiration of Scripture.” However, in the same statement, which is similar to Wycliffe’s, it claims “word-for-word translation of these titles would communicate an incorrect meaning (i.e. that God had physical, sexual relationships with Mary) [sic],” thus justifying substituting “Father” and “Son” in new translations. Calls and emails to Wycliffe and SIL to clarify their positions were not returned. Frontiers responded to calls with articles that critics have already dismissed as skirting omissions of “Father” and “Son” in new Bible translations.
By Hussein Hajji Wario, January 27, 2012
Biblical Research Institute’s Trinity Comment to Walter Veith
5.) The final note of interest in my research about Amazing Discoveries belief about the Trinity doctrine was a letter written by Ángel M. Rodríguez, Th.D. from the Biblical Research Institute to Walter Veith back in February 15, 2008. The letter was about the Total Onslaught video series and how his “lectures have caused some stir in the church.” The videos being referred to in the letter as “your teachings on the textus receptus” are #213 – Battle of the Bibles and #214 – Changing the Word
One of the six general observations Dr. Rodríguez had was the following:
We keep in mind historical developments: The Catholic Church supports the doctrine of the trinity, even though somewhat different from us, and the divinity of Jesus. It had and has no interest in altering christological statements. No matter which translation you use, maybe with the exception of the Bible of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Lordship and Deity of Christ can be shown from any version – BRI Letter to Walter Veith from by Ángel M. Rodríguez
What I learned from this statement is that there is a great amount of pressure from the Seventh-day Adventist leadership to have Pastors such as Walter Veith conform to the teachings of our leading theologians. When pastors who have influence like Doug Batchelor stand for certain doctrinal truths in opposition to our leading theologians there is conflict such as we saw a couple of weeks ago with Doug Batchelor’s evangelistic meeting being cancelled by the Florida Conference of Seventh-day Adventists. Dr. Rodríguez used the doctrine of the trinity as a point or proof against Walter’s strong emphasis of the Catholic church being connected with changing the Bible. I find that very fascinating because his statement reminds me of the logic quoted in an old Catholic paper:
Practically everything Protestants regard as essential or important they have received from the Catholic Church… The Protestant mind does not seem to realize that in accepting the Bible and observing the Sunday, in keeping Christmas and Easter, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope. Our Sunday Visitor (February 5, 1950):
In my understanding Dr. Rodríguez is saying not all of the Catholic church doctrines are evil. The Catholic church is NOT going to do away with Christ (Christological statements) in the Bible because they also believe in the trinity. My response to this observation would be that by our church believing in the trinity doctrine we are already taking away the Son of God. In other words the Protestant Seventh-day Adventist mind does not seem to realize that in accepting the Bible and believing in the doctrine of the trinity, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.
The purpose of this article is to help people that have been truly touched by the dedicated ministry of Amazing Discoveries to keep moving forward in their walk with Christ and test every doctrine against the Word of God. Do not rely on any preacher including Walter Veith or any ministry such as Amazing Discoveries or Amazing Facts because:
A.) It’s a Biblical principle.
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 1 Thessalonians 5:21
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11
B.) We need to pray and help the people who are preaching God’s Word by searching the scriptures ready to give an answer. If we see error we need to be willing to talk about it. Amazing Discoveries exposes deceptions and I am looking forward to that day by the grace of God when Amazing Discoveries records a powerful presentation against the trinity doctrine and comes back to the plain teaching of the Seventh-day Adventist church.
Walter Veith. Please put me on the pre-order list for this Anti-Trinitarian video. I will wait patiently. Thank you for bringing me into this end-time message through your videos. May the Lord bless you and your wife. Continue to press on in spite of all the opposition around you. Dear Reader, please pray for the teacher that was influential in bringing me to an understanding of the times we are living in. Thank you.
Update: August 6, 2016
It has been brought to my attention that in this article I may be egging on Amazing Discoveries to talk about the truth about God almost to the point of attacking them. Am I doing this? After reading the article again I see that I am “egging on” (inciting to action; stir up; spur on; urge on) Amazing Discoveries. I am hoping to raise awareness of the Trinity doctrine deception. I personally know people that are strong supporters of Amazing Discoveries and when I talk with them regarding the Trinity teaching they are trusting in the Amazing Discoveries organization for guidance. People are not seeing and judging for themselves. Seemingly strong truth seekers do not want to put the Trinity doctrine on the table for examination because they are trusting in ministries like Amazing Facts, Secrets Unsealed and Lightbearers.
Religious teachers read the Bible in the light of their own understanding and traditions; and the people do not search the Scriptures for themselves, and judge for themselves as to what is truth; but they yield up their judgment, and commit their souls to their leaders. Desire of Ages, p.459
If friends of mine are yielding up their judgment to religious teachers then it makes sense to me to begin talking about what these teachers are saying on the subject of the Trinity and expose the false theories that my friends are accepting. I am not attacking Amazing Discoveries. The organization has helped me but I hope no one will trust in any organization to the point of not comparing the messages brought to them with what is recorded in the Bible.
Urging on with love,
Jason
Greetings Brother in Christ!
I write because I have a desire to share. It is born out of a desire to understand. I wanted to know also what Dr. Veith believed about the Trinity.
I must ask, does not John claim Jesus to be Yahweh in John 12:38-41?
What is Walter’s belief on the Breckinridge law that puts a death degree for denying the Trinity Also why hast he done a Video on Sunday is in honor of the trinity and now the Seventhday Adventist have made the Sabbath in honor of the pagan trinity ? Great sight on this is Whitehorse revelation on the Breckinridge law on YouTube
Hello Ian,
Thanks for the comment. I looked at the scriptures you shared:
That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
John 12:38-41
John 12:41 has a scripture reference to Isaiah:
In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.
Isaiah 6:1-5
The word “LORD” in Isaiah 6:5 is Yehovah (Strongs: From H1961; (the) self Existent or eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: – Jehovah, the Lord. Compare H3050, H3069.)
The Bible certainly calls Jesus Yehovah but please do not jump to the conclusion that this proves that God is a Trinity. These texts do not give any proof that there is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three coeternal Persons.
The Bible uplifts one God who is the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ who is the Son of God. Jesus is called Jehovah because He is the express image of the Father’s person.
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1 Corinthians 8:6
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Hebrews 1:3
Perhaps a few quotes from E.J. Waggoner’s excellent book “Christ and His Righteousness” will help in understanding how Jesus can be called Jehovah.
“A son always rightfully takes the name of the father; and Christ, as “the only begotten Son of God,” has rightfully the same name. A son, also, is, to a greater or less degree, a reproduction of the father; he has to some extent the features and personal characteristics of his father; not perfectly, because there is no perfect reproduction among mankind. But there is no imperfection in God, or in any of His works, and so Christ is the “express image” of the Father’s person. Hebrews 1:3. As the Son of the self- existent God, He has by nature all the attributes of Deity.” (E.J. Waggoner – Christ and His Righteousness – Page 7 of the link below)
http://www.acts321.org/assets/documents/pdfs/books/christ_and_his_righteousness.pdf
“Christ “is in the bosom of the Father;” being by nature the very substance of God and having life in Himself, He is properly called Jehovah, the self existing one and is thus styled in Jeremiah 23:56, where it is said that the righteous Branch, who shall execute judgment and justice in the earth, shall be known by the name of Jehovah-tsidekenu–THE LORD, OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.” (Ibid page 14)
“All things proceed ultimately from God, the Father; even Christ Himself proceeded and came forth from the Father, but it has pleased the Father that in Him should all fullness dwell, and that He should be the direct, immediate Agent in every act of creation. Our object in this investigation is to set forth Christ’s rightful position of equality with the Father, in order that His power to redeem may be the better appreciated.” (Ibid page 11)
Thanks for your question. Hope that helps.
Jason
The Bible says you shall have no other God’s before me. Therefore God is a title given to someone or something that is worshipped. Ellen White notes that Jesus was with the father when the law was given on sinai. Is Jesus a God? I believe there is ample evidence that Jesus deserves the title of God. “and his name shall be called wonderful Councillor the mighty God the everlasting father the Prince of peace” even thomas Jesus’s disciple said my lord and my God he was not rebuked for worshipping Jesus as others who worshipped angels have been. Unfortunately the anti trinity movement which is correct about the holy spirit not being a separate being (which many God head believers are now advocating) have also bought in an incorrect doctrine that belittles Jesus and tries to subtly bring him down to not be worshipped and glorified as he deserves. Satan wants us to be in either of these two camps both having truth and a little bit of error. Jesus is a God the Father is God the holy spirit refers to either Jesus’s spirit essence (non physical part of him) or the fathers depending on the context. Jesus said I and my father are one. They are one in spirit. When we resist not the spirit we then can be one with them in spirit, and then Jesus lives in us!! Concerning walter who am I to judge the very intellectual walter veith, but as God tells us to not be a respecter of persons I will note his lack of biblical evidence on this subject and his extreme change of direction toward the leadership of the church from a few years ago, which makes me wonder if he is one of the bright lights Ellen White talks about that will go out when the storm breaks.
Many a star that we have admired for its brilliance will then go out in darkness.—Prophets and Kings, 188 (c. 1914). He may not go out in popularity but in standing up for the truth he seems to be waning. We need to read our Bibles, don’t trust your salvation to any evangelist or pastor no matter how smart they are. Walter has been a bright light in bringing truth to me, but I worship God and if the salt loses its saltiness then it is good for nothing. I doubt he could claim ignorance on this topic.
hi brother, greetings in the Name of Our LORD JESUS CHRIST. Just to inform you that we already have a powerful and total onslaught video on the doctrine of the trinity by the Revelation1412.org team! the champions of TRUTH are Imad Awde and Nader Mansour. please subscribe to these videos on YouTube.
I was just curious if you ever got an answer back from Brother Walter as to whether or not he supported the anti-trintitarian belief. I have just come this truth of the God head and I am so shocked that I have been lied to all my life about this matter. Walter has some really great videos and I don’t want to cast him aside as a false teacher if it isn’t true. Please let me know if you find out anything!!! Thank you and please keep me and my family in your prayers. We are all on the journey to discover more truth and learn what it is that God wants for us to know. May God continue to bless you as well.
As of October 30th, 2016 we have not heard any new information that Walter Veith or Amazing Discoveries are talking about the Trinity doctrine. Thank you for your comment and we really appreciate your short testimony about coming to the truth about God. Walter Veith’s video series were personally an integral part of my conversion experience and I am thankful for his dedication and ministry. We need to pray for Walter that God may give him strength and wisdom to see the wonderful truth that God truly does have a Son. Prayer is needed also for the countless people that have come to the Bible through Walter Veith’s messages to have the courage to keep moving forward even if Walter Veith decides to remain silent about the Trinity doctrine.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2Timothy 2:15
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2 Peter 1:16-17
God bless you sister as you and your family continue your Christian walk now knowing the truth about God. We will pray for you.
Take care,
Jason
i MYSELF HAVE GROWN MUCH WITH WALTERS TEACHINGS AND WITH NADER MANSOUR WHO HAS SHOWN ME THE TRUTH OF THE FALSE TRINITY.
I LOVE THIS LATEST WALTER VEITH VIDEO WHICH I HAVE MADE INTO
A POSTING FORM TO SHARE ==>
,,, WOW OH WOW .. MUST WATCH TO SEE THE TRUTH OF ETERNITY TO COME AND KEEPING THE SABBATH AND AFTER THE 1000 YEARS WE WILL KEEP THE FEAST AGAIN TOO ON A NEW EARTH …. WOW …. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW0R9BmjWZo&index=33&list=PLA20532ACA47E24CEI HAVE WATCHED AND SEEN 1000’S OF TEACHERS OVER THE LAST 3 YEARS AND I HAVE TO SAY THIS MAN HAS THE CLOSEST TO SCRIPTURE ,,(NOT PERFECT),,, THAT I HAVE FOUND SO FAR.. HE IS NOT SDA ANYMORE (if they choose to switch to sunday sabbaths) SINCE MANY OF THE SDA CHURCHES HAVE GONE ASTRAY AND NOW FOLLOW THE CATHOLIC RELIGION = VATICAN JESUITS……….. ===>The Close of Probation For The SDA Church – Walter Veith ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi_4j8ZGi8U ………
ALSO I LOVE NADER MANSOUR RECENT VIDEO ==> Some Better Thing For Us – Nader Mansour (WI)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uvNZAST8Hs
I AM == NewGuyN MyMom == 1 second ago
I LOVE THIS VIDEO NADER AND WISH YOU AND WALTER VEITH WOULD JOIN TOGETHER FOR A JOINT TEACHING
Greetings Jason,
I Also have been trying to get in touch with Walter Vieth, but for reasons other than the Trinity. Another Youtuber just happened to mention the Trinity ? in relation to Walters beliefs, Well after a few exchanges he sent me this and suggested listening to the first few minutes….
https://youtu.be/9pjIaNvu3XY
It’s called, All Together, One Two Three
Here’s what I am trying to get to Walter for his perusal…
REVEALING GODS TREASURE, Noah’s Ark – Ark of Covenant – Red Sea Crossing – Mt Sinai – Sodom&Gomorrah – Pyramid Construction – Rock@Horeb – Ron Wyatt
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-nw5HJjzqdX_25xRujxv6zxHik6xdxWL
HalleluYah & God Bless.
joachim olsen.
Hello Joachim,
Thank you for your email. I do wonder what Walter Veith’s thought would be on Ron Wyatt’s findings. The Red Sea Crossing presentation by Ron Wyatt was one of the main videos that encouraged me to come back to the Bible. I hope many people will take the time to watch the presentations.
Thank you,
Jason
Please let me know what you think, I myself have been deceived many times in my life, often by those who have been deceived themselves. Personally the Trinity makes no sense to me, but that will not stop me from sharing what I’ve learned from Walter. I’ll continue to follow and Discern for myself what he has to share.
Thanks for the comment. You have reminded me of 1 Thessalonians 5:21 – Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
In Russia there is a revival and struggle for truth. People present a lot of evidence against the teachings of the Bible from the Bible, as well as from the Spirit of Prophecy. I point out that our pioneers did not believe in the doctrine of the trinity but fought the doctrine for the rest of their lives. Greetings from Czech Republic.
Instead of believing Ron Wyatt’s Noahs Ark discovery, first check out Archer Bonema discovery of planks that 5 independent DNA labs confirmed must have come from a large ship containing DNA from animals today found dispered on earth. Not Mouñt Ararat in Turkey. Rather on Mount Soliman in Iran, in the mountain range of Ararat…50 miles north of Tehran at a height of 13,126′.
Thanks for the information that you have shared.
Jason
I have been trying to establish a bonified list of quotations from founding fathers, Mrs. White and Bible supporting non-trinitarian beliefs of early church.
What I can’t find is definite proof that these quotations really exist.
Also, it is very confusing to have Mrs. White contradict herself in several books. Can somebody just tell me the simple truth backed up by real sources?
Also, what is the impact of this doctrine in the light of current events.
Hello Joan, Thank you for your comment. You have mentioned three requests
1. You are looking for an established list of quotations.
2. You are looking for the simple truth.
3. You are looking to know what is the impact of this doctrine in the light of current events?
For all these answers, I would encourage the reading of the first chapter of Patriarchs and Prophets. In this chapter entitled “Why Was Sin Permitted?” you will find an established list of quotations that DO NOT point to the theory that: “there is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three coeternal Persons.” https://www.adventist.org/trinity/
Note what we read in the chapter in Patriarchs and Prophets:
1. “The Sovereign of the universe was not alone in His work of beneficence. He had an associate—a co-worker who could appreciate His purposes, and could share His joy in giving happiness to created beings.” Great Controversy page 34.
– Was God alone? Answer: No
– Did God have associates plural or an associate singular? Answer: It says “an associate”
2. “Christ, the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father—one in nature, in character, in purpose—the only being that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God.” Great Controversy page 34
– Who was God’s associate? Answer: Christ
– What was Christ called? Answer: the only begotten of God
– Was Christ the ONLY being that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God? Answer: Yes
– If Christ was the only being that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God then is it possible that another being besides the Father and the Son additionally entered into the counsels and purposes of God? Answer: It’s not possible because Christ was the only being that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God.
3. “The Father wrought by His Son in the creation of all heavenly beings.” Great Controversy page 34
– Is there any indication in the chapter that we should take the relationship of Father and Son as not real? Answer: No
– Is the Father a real Father to His Son or is the Father a pretend Father to His pretend Son? Answer: We have no reason to take the word “Father” as figurative.
– Is the Son a real Son of His Father? Answer: We have no reason to take the word “Son” as figurative.
4. “There was one who perverted the freedom that God had granted to His creatures. Sin originated with him who, next to Christ, had been most honored of God and was highest in power and glory among the inhabitants of heaven. Lucifer, “son of the morning,” was first of the covering cherubs, holy and undefiled.” Great Controversy page 35
– Next to Christ, who had been most honored of God? Answer: Lucifer
– Would a person who believes there is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three coeternal Persons say that next to Christ, Lucifer had been most honored of God? Answer: No because people who believe in the Trinity believe there are three coeternal Persons. A Trinitarian may prefer the sentence to be stated this way: “Sin originated with him who, next to God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, had been most honored of God the Father and was highest in power and glory among the inhabitants of heaven.”
5. “The Son of God shared the Father’s throne, and the glory of the eternal, self-existent One encircled both.” Great Controversy page 36
– Who shared the Father’s throne? Answer: The Son of God
– Does “both” mean two or three? Answer: Two
– Who is being referred to when it says “both”? Answer: The Father and the Son
You now have a list of quotations from Mrs. White that do not point to the Trinity doctrine.
I am interested to know what you see as contradictions in the writings of Ellen White. Would you be able to share one or two for us? I have not come across any at this time.
The impact of this doctrine in the light of current events is that John 17:3 says life eternal is found in knowing the Father and the Son. One cannot know the Father if He does not know the Son for Matthew 11:27 says “neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son…” If we don’t have the Son then we don’t have life (1 John 5:12). The doctrine of the Trinity takes away the Son. How does the doctrine of the Trinity take away the Son of God? Answer: Trinitarians don’t believe that the Son is a literal son but a metaphor or a role play. They also don’t believe that the Father is a literal Father to the Son. They believe Father is only to be taken figuratively or a role play. The true knowledge of God helps me to love, honor, respect, and trust God more and to serve Him better. The Father has a Son and it is true for it is written:
Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. 2 John 3
Define Trinity!
I am positive, if the true Biblical Godhead is presented to honest Christians vs. the Catholic trinity (only condition for membership in the world council of churches) we will choose God the Father and His real Son Jesus Christ represented by the Holy Spirit of God, that is also given through Jesus Christ to us, as true followers. see John 14:17-18,23-26, 15:26-27, 16:12+16, 17;1-26, DA671
Just cling to the original word, and we shall also receive life as Christ Jesus received Life! Why debate that which is already established?
What if we would start at Genesis 1 and 2? In creating human beeing : in Gods imadge and likenes… So how does it come to be that human beeing, made of man and women (she is taken from him) are one – one human beeing, being able to reproduse and bear children. In this picture we could see God being One – God Father, and Holy Spirit (taken from God Father) at the same time being a separat personality and at the same time One God, with begoten Son Jesus – God Jesus, for how can he be anything else then the One from whome he comes. I see more and more clearely when trying to understand bouth positions of trinitarians and antitrinitarians, basicly because this isue is not moving anywhere as the discusion allways ends up with bouth camps beeing wrighte confirming tbemselves by bible and Elem White. This idea came to me after reading G.R. Knight book “I was perfect” where he defines how at the same time salvation and sanctification are the things hapening at the moment as well as happening through our whole life. To add to this i was loking to the hebr. word Spirit – and it is female word as well as in lithuanian language wich has the oldest origin among living languages. It was allways a big chalange to me to understand why God has created woman if all in Godhed are men, that has ben a shoking expirience to me to hear for the first time in the church that Holy spirit is He. Sincerely.
Walter Veith does support the trinity. His organization has put out a Jesuit inspired video by Joel Kratzke who is a handler and a Catolic sympathizer. It was very clear after contacting Amazing Discoveries that what we believe in of no importance to them. They have no leg to stand on. When the real important subjects hit the fan you will see those who have made vast inroads into Adventism lead the masses into the wide gate to perdition.
1. When God said “let US create,” were there “two gods”? NO. One God, united of three Persons.
2. When Paul said there is “one God” = the Father, and “one Lord” = Jesus Christ, Is the Father no longer Lord? and is Jesus no longer God? NO. Jesus and the Father are ‘One’. When you worship, or see Jesus, you also do it for the Father. When you glorify the Father, you glorify Jesus. When you say one God, the Father, you mentioned Jesus; When you say one Lord, Jesus Christ, you mentioned the Father.
3. Jesus IS God, no doubt. To separate Jesus and the Father, means you’re creating ‘two’ gods, therefore violate God’s law.
As I came to see the false doctrine of the trinity, I also looked to see what Walter Veith had to say on the subject. I likewise was led to Walter’s Total Onslaught series and learned so much and became a Seventh-day Adventist, even though I could see the apostasy in the church. At around that same time (2-1/2+ years ago), I was also led to Andrew Henriquez, Saved to Serve and Prophesy Again TV. I believe Andrew’s teachings are much more biblically accurate than the Revelation1412.org, where I have seen holes in their teaching. If you haven’t listened to Andrew, this is a link to his two sermons on the trinity, which are well worth listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z77vy0B9DPM and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGlfO0rtbPU. They are close to 2 hours each, but worth every minute of his comprehensive teaching from the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy on the subject. It saddens me that Walter, Doug, Greg at Bible Flock Box and others I have listened to and learned much from are either not seeing, or are being discouraged from preaching truth about the character of God, the Father, our Lord, Jesus Christ. His only begotten Son, and the Holy Spirit. If we do not understand the character of God, to the extent He has revealed Himself to us in His Holy Word, Satan will find a way to use that to his advantage, and our destruction. How many are now praising, worshipping and praying to the Holy Spirit, something we are never told to do, opening the door for Satan to respond.
Everyone should see Daniel Mesa’s videos on the angels on you tube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5vzEo5pYCA
Some comments on the subject of the trinity : While Mrs White never uses the term trinity, there some 280 plus references in her writings and compilations to the Godhead, including 45 uses of the term ‘three great powers of heaven.’ The theology of the pioneers, Mrs White excepted, is uninspired. The nature of the three divine persons comprising the Godhead is often confused with their function. In this regard, see Pastor Vance Ferrell ‘ s study – Defending the Godhead – SDADefend on the internet.
Let’s look at the sanctuary.
There were 2 x 6 showbreads (two columns of six) on the table surrounded with two crowns.
Not 3 x 6 (666). Not 3 crowns on the table.
Thank you Brother Jiří for this thought.
Partly due to watching Walter Veith’s videos, In 2015 I tried to enter the SDA church when I saw they were not sounding the warning to the world to come out of Babylon. They have been silent locally and nationally. I hoped that I would be able to contribute to the effort to warn the world.
When I learned I had to believe in the Trinity I could not join the church, because I believe that Jesus Christ, who created our world, was the Son of God before his incarnation in Bethlehem. In both Catholic and Adventist versions of the Trinity the 3 persons are co-eternal, which they define as have no beginning and never dying. This says both that Jesus is not the actual Son of God, and never really died on the cross. The difference between the two Trinities is that Adventists and Catholics both say that they are co-eternal, but Adventists don’t mention co-equal. Adventists deny outright that Christ is the Son of God since He was not literally “begotten.” They say the Greek word “monogenes” does not mean “only begotten”, but instead means “unique.” At least the Catholics say Christ IS begotten, and is a Son of God the Father, though they say there was never a time He did not exist, and is eternally being begotten, and always will continue to be begotten. The bible is clear that Jesus is the Son of God. Even a child can understand it. Only theologians can explain how or why He is not.
The weak efforts to explain that the holy Spirit is another person like the Father and Son embarrass me to hear them. Walter Veith should be embarrassed as well.
Here is what the Catholics say about the Trinity:
“Our opponents sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which is not explicitly stated in Scripture (ignoring that it is only on the authority of the Church we recognize certain Gospels and not others as true). But the Protestant Churches have themselves accepted such dogmas as the Trinity for which there is no such precise authority in the Gospels.”
(Life Magazine, Oct. 30, 1950)
Thank you for sharing your experience and a summary of the Seventh Day Adventist Trinity versus the Catholic Trinity. Much appreciated. Have you heard of https://seventhdaypress.org/ ? It is seeking to organize God’s people on the platform of truth. The ministry believes that Jesus truly is the Son of God.
Jason, thanks for the link to seventhdaypress.org and thanks for your testimony on this page. I have wanted to talk to Walter Veith, too, and ask why he doesn’t teach the truth. I enjoyed his Total Onslaught videos, but noticed several errors. He needs a fact checker and proofreader. I thought of offering to help Amazing Discoveries, and I do video work for a living, so thought I might fit in, but I can’t support a trinitarian ministry.
If the doctrine of the trinity is false and Jesus is both Son and Holy Spirit, how did the Holy Spirit descend upon him at his baptism?