Dennis Priebe Trinity Transcript-New Light for SDA’s

Pastor Priebe shows how different the Catholic Trinity is from the Seventh-day Adventist Trinity.

Article: Is the Seventh-day Adventist Trinity the Same Catholic Trinity?

[9:28] J.N. Andrews wrote this doctrine destroys the personality of God
[9:33] and His Son Jesus Christ our Lord
[9:36] Yes they did reject it but remember what they were rejecting will come back to that.
[9:42] So if we are going to defend the biblical truth
[9:46] that there are three persons with the family name of God
[9:50] maybe we would be better off to use the Biblical term which is Godhead.
[9:57] Trinity has been co-opted in some very significant ways.
[10:02] So what we’re going to do is just run through some issues relating to this and I hope
[10:07] your Bibles are handy because we’re going to dig into the Word of God.
[10:11] Are there really three beings with one name in Scripture.

[10:15] We’ll start with the most common one. Matthew 28:19.
[10:20] Matthew 28:19. As Jesus left them His last word to them were, was:
[10:28] Go ye therefore and teach all nations baptizing them in the name
[10:33] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost
[10:37] so notice hear the word name is singular
[10:42] The name not names. Name.
[10:45] Which means that all three that follow are on the same level
[10:50] The name of the Father, the name of the Son, the name of the Holy Spirit it is one name.
[10:55] And the definite article is used with all of the three beings.
[10:59] The Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost.
[11:02] So this very brief statement is saying that there are three beings that are God
[11:08] and yet there is one God.
[11:10] This is one of the great mysterious teachings of Scripture that even today
[11:16] we have a hard time wrapping our minds around.

Pastor Priebe uses Matthew 28:19 as proof that there are 3 beings with 1 name. Read the Ellen White quote that helps Seventh-day Adventist understand what being baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost means.

Article: Does Ellen White Explain Matthew 28:19 as a Trinity?

[11:18] And for the Muslim world it’s almost an impossible concept.
[11:22] It is a very difficult mystery of Scripture that we are dealing with this morning
[11:28] and none of the illustrations that we commonly use about triangles and various things.
[11:32] They really don’t do the job
[11:35] because this is one of the truly great mysteries of Scripture.
[11:39] Well let’s try a few other text let’s just see what the Bible says
[11:41] John Chapter 14. John Chapter 14.
[11:46] When Jesus says He will send someone after he leaves.
[11:50] John fourteen and verse sixteen.
[11:54] Very common statement again we’re all very familiar with it.
[11:58] And I will pray the Father and He shall give you another comforter
[12:03] that he may abide with you forever.
[12:06] Now the word “another” is a very important word.
[12:09] It means another of the same kind.
[12:12] He is saying I will send you another like me
[12:17] Another one of the same kind as I am to be your comforter
[12:22] That word “another” is significant there another like me of the same kind.
[12:28] Go to another text second Corinthians chapter thirteen and verse fourteen.
[12:37] Second Corinthians chapter thirteen verse fourteen
[12:43] The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God
[12:50] and the communion of the Holy Ghost be with you all.
[12:55] Three gifts from three beings
[12:59] Three gifts each with a different aspect
[13:03] from the three beings in the Godhead.
[13:06] First Peter chapter one verse two. 1 Peter 1:2
[13:17] Now notice carefully here
[13:19] again we have three elect according to the four knowledge of God the Father
[13:23] through sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ.
[13:32] Three different things that the three beings do in the Godhead.
[13:36] I thought we had the next one up. I’m sorry we should have one more up there.
[13:40] All right. Three beings with one name.
[13:43] We have three functions here of three beings.
[13:47] Three functions that are very crucial. One is foreknowledge.
[13:52] One is sanctification. One is the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ.
[13:58] All right. Two or three statements from Ellen whites writings.
[14:03] One from Testimonies volume eight page two fifty four.
[14:07] Volume eight two fifty four. She refers to the three great powers of heaven.
[14:13] The three great powers of heaven.
[14:16] Another from Evangelism page six fifteen through six seventeen.
[14:21] There are three living persons of the heavenly trio.
[14:27] Catch those words. Three persons heavenly trio. Not duet. Trio.
[14:34] Evangelism again the eternal heavenly dignitaries God and Christ and the Holy Spirit.
[14:43] Three eternal dignitaries. The three highest powers in heaven.
[14:49] The Father the Son and the Holy Ghost three highest powers that’s a
[14:54] consistent way that Ellen White refers to the members of the Godhead
[14:59] Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
[15:01] So that means three beings with one name God. Father Son and Holy Spirit
[15:09] As I say. One of the great mysteries.
[15:12] Hard to wrap our minds around but nevertheless taught in Scripture.
[15:16] All right let’s move to the next then
[15:18] What about the Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit clearly seen as an individual with a personality.
[15:26] Ephesians Chapter four verse thirty. Ephesians 4:30
[15:33] And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God whereby you are sealed into the day of redemption.
[15:40] Can a force be grieved? Can a power be grieved? Can an influence be grieved?
[15:44] or can a person be grieved? A person has the potential of grief, sorrow.
[15:51] We understand that easily with Jesus Christ a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
[15:56] The Holy Spirit can be grieved in the same way that Christ could be grieved.
[16:03] First Corinthians Chapter twelve verse eleven. 1 Corinthians 12:11
[16:10] Talking about the gifts of the Spirit
[16:13] Previous verses. But all these work at that one and the self same spirit
[16:18] dividing to every man severally as he will This indicates choice.
[16:25] He decides which of us get what gift.
[16:28] It is a decision the Holy Spirit makes.
[16:30] We all receive gifts. He makes the decision. We don’t. Choice.
[16:36] Romans chapter eight verse twenty six. Romans 8:26
[16:42] Likewise the spirit also help with our infirmities for
[16:47] we know not what we should pray as for as we ought
[16:50] but the spirit itself maketh intercession for us
[16:53] with groanings which cannot be uttered.
[16:56] So here we have the Holy Spirit. We know Jesus makes intercession for us.
[17:00] Now the Holy Spirit is making intercessions for us
[17:04] because we need His help to approach the throne of God.
[17:09] Acts chapter sixteen. Acts chapter sixteen and we will read verses six and seven.
[17:18] Paul is on one of his missionary journeys.
[17:22] Now when they had gone through Phrygia and the region of Galatia
[17:29] and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia.
[17:33] After they were come to Mysia they assayed to go into Bithynia but
[17:36] the Spirit suffered or allowed them not.
[17:41] So here the Holy Spirit is making some commands.
[17:44] Don’t go here. Go their. Decision making powers once again.
[17:51] Try Acts chapter fifteen. Acts 15:28
[17:58] This is that great church council that was held in Jerusalem
[18:04] to decide whether circumcision would be the way they would go or not
[18:08] Acts fifteen twenty eight. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost
[18:12] and to us to lay upon you no greater burden
[18:16] than these necessary things.
[18:18] Are the apostles individuals with the decision making abilities. Us.
[18:23] This is good to the Holy Spirit and to us.
[18:27] So is the Holy Spirit a decision making individual
[18:31] with choices to make?
[18:33] The Holy Spirit is put on the same category of making decisions here as the Apostles were.
[18:39] Acts chapter five. Acts 5:3-4.
[18:46] It’s the very familiar story of Ananias and Sapphira.
[18:50] But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost,
[18:56] and to keep back part of the price of the land
[18:59] whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power?
[19:03] Why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
[19:09] Two things there. First of all they lied to the Holy Spirit.
[19:13] You don’t lie to a force. You don’t lie to an influence
[19:17] You can reject an influence but you can’t lie to it.
[19:21] You can lie to a person. And this particular person is specifically called God.
[19:27] You have lied to God. So that I think is very significant.
[19:32] All right. Just a few statements from Ellen White
[19:35] Selected Messages volume one page three forty four
[19:39] 1SM 344.
[19:41] Christ our mediator and the Holy Spirit are constantly interceding in man’s behalf
[19:49] But the Spirit pleads not for us as does Christ
[19:54] who presents his blood. The Spirit works upon our hearts.
[19:59] The Spirit doesn’t do the same work that Christ does.
[20:03] Christ pleads his Blood. The Holy Spirit impresses upon our hearts conviction of sin.
[20:09] Two different works by two different individuals.
[20:13] And then again from Evangelism six sixteen and six seventeen.
[20:18] The Holy Spirit who is as much a person as God is a person is walking through these grounds.
[20:26] That was in Avondale when she was there in that school.
[20:29] The Holy Spirit is a person.
[20:37] The Holy Spirit has a personality.
[20:36] All right. I do think that there is evidence that the Holy Spirit is a person
[20:44] and has a personality. With that said
[20:48] I now want to share with you something else here
[20:51] that becomes really important to understand.
[20:54] Ellen White warned us from becoming overly dogmatic on this subject.
[21:02] If you want to look it up. It’s in manuscript releases Volume fourteen 175 to 180
[21:08] It’s a little longer than I normally read but it is a really really important
[21:14] Brethren should not feel that it is a virtue to stand apart
[21:18] because they do not see all minor points in exactly the same light.
[21:22] If on fundamental truths they are at an agreement
[21:25] they should not differ and dispute about matters of little real importance
[21:31] to dwell on perplexing questions that after all are of no vital importance
[21:36] has a direct tendency to call the mind away from truth which are vital to the saving of the soul
[21:42] Brethren should be very modest in urging these side issues
[21:48] which often they do not themselves understand points that they do not know to be truth
[21:53] and that it is not essential to their salvation to know
[21:58] where these differences exist among us.
[22:01] Those who stand outside will say it will be time enough for us to
[22:04] believe as you do when you could agree among yourselves as to what constitutes truth.
[22:08] The ungodly take advantage of the divisions
[22:12] and controversies among Christians.
[22:14] Some are ever seeking to be original to bring out something new and startling
[22:18] and they do not realize as they should the importance of preserving the unity of the faith in
[22:23] the bonds of love. We are to pray for divine enlightenment
[22:27] but at the same time we should be careful how we receive everything termed new light.
[22:31] We must be aware lest under cover of searching for new truth
[22:35] Satan shall divert our minds from Christ and the special truths for this time.
[22:40] I have been shown that it is the device of the enemy to lead minds to
[22:43] dwell upon some obscure or unimportant point something that is not fully revealed
[22:49] or is not essential to our salvation.
[22:52] This is made the absorbing theme the quote present truth
[22:56] when all their investigations and suppositions
[22:59] only serve to make matters more obscure than before
[23:02] and to confuse the minds of some who ought to be seeking for
[23:05] oneness through sanctification of the truth.
[23:08] Now that’s a very general and a very important statement
[23:11] that we must not allow ourselves to be diverted to side issues
[23:15] and areas which are not important for salvation now
[23:18] what exactly is one of those side issues not essential to salvation.
[23:23] She continues. The nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery not clearly revealed
[23:30] and you will never be able to explain it to others because the Lord has not revealed it to you.
[23:35] You may gather together scriptures and put your construction upon them but
[23:40] the application is not correct.
[23:43] It is not essential for you to know and be able to define just what the Holy Spirit is.
[23:49] There are many mysteries which I do not seek to understand or to explain.
[23:54] They are too high for me and too high for you.
[23:58] On some of these points silence is golden.
[24:03] Your mind is restless. You would make the mistake that many others have made of
[24:08] thinking that you have new light when it is only a new phase of error.
[24:12] You may take certain views of scripture and searching the Bible in the light of your ideas
[24:17] may gather together a large number of texts and claim that they mean this and that and
[24:21] call for anyone to prove to you that your views are incorrect.
[24:24] Here is your danger of diverting minds from the real issues of this time.
[24:31] Now my brother, it is truth that we want and must have
[24:35] but do not introduce error as new truth.
[24:40] And that counsel my friends applies to all areas of new light that we examine.
[24:46] That we must be very careful that it is truly new light and not a new phase of old error
[24:50] which has come to us. In fact I’m going to share again with you
[24:56] a few of the statements from the Catholic Church on this point to get you to understand
[25:01] To get all of us to understand clearly what the pioneers were rejecting.
[25:06] God is a Spirit and the first act of a spirit brings forth the knowledge of himself
[25:13] His own image. This was a living person of the same substance
[25:17] and one with the father. This is God the Son. Thus the Father begets the Son
[25:22] the Divine Word, the wisdom of the Father.
[25:24] Their mutual love is breathed forth as it were a living person
[25:28] one with them and of their own substance. This is God the Holy Ghost.
[25:32] Thus the Holy Ghost the spirit of love proceeds from the Father and the Son
[25:37] God the Father eternally knows Himself and thus continues to bring forth the Son.
[25:42] How about that. Is that a clear exposition of the Godhead.
[25:47] Or does it totally cloud the issue with words that
[25:50] are very difficult for even the most scholarly mind to understand.
[25:55] That’s what our pioneers were rejecting.
[25:57] That’s what they were saying they couldn’t be a part of
[26:00] and did not want to accept. All right.
[26:04] So let’s move to number three. What about the eternal existence of Jesus Christ.
[26:11] John one. Got to start there don’t we.
[26:15] John chapter one.
[26:18] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
[26:23] and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
[26:27] All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.
[26:31] In Him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[26:35] Careful. Jesus was not only with the Father
[26:38] but he was God. Not a god as the Jehovah’s Witness translation translates that verse.
[26:46] But he was God. He was the creator of everything.
[26:50] The life principle was in him he did not receive life from anyone.
[26:56] He is the eternal Word. Now let’s get to more specific areas John chapter eight.
[27:01] John Chapter eight verse fifty eight.
[27:04] This is an amazing statement. He’s in the midst of a big argument
[27:12] with the Jews about how he could possibly possibly be before he was on this earth.
[27:22] The Jews said unto him in verse fifty seven: Thou are not yet fifty years old,
[27:27] Hast thou seen Abraham? and Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
[27:34] before Abraham was, I Am.
[27:38] I hope you know what that those last two words mean.
[27:42] This was not just a statement that he lived before Abraham.
[27:45] This was a claim. Let’s find that claim it’s in back in the Book of Exodus.
[27:49] Exodus chapter three. Exodus chapter three and verse fourteen.
[27:56] This is when Moses is sent back to Egypt
[28:01] to talk to his people and convince them that this was the time for deliverance
[28:06] and Moses was afraid that they would not know what he was there for was
[28:11] he there on his own authority and they will ask about
[28:16] the God he represents. What is his name.
[28:19] Verse fourteen Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses,
[28:22] I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,
[28:28] I AM hath sent to me unto you.
[28:32] Jesus is claiming that name.
[28:34] Jesus is saying before Abraham was I am the one who talked to Moses
[28:41] and sent him to deliver you as a people.
[28:43] Ellen White has a very interesting statement
[28:46] on this in Desire of Ages 469 and 470.
[28:50] The name of God, 469 and 470, the name of God given to Moses
[28:57] to express the idea of the eternal presence had been claimed as his own.
[29:02] The name of God had been claimed by Jesus as his name.
[29:06] He had announced himself to be the self-existent One,
[29:10] whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity.
[29:14] That’s why they took up stones to stone him.
[29:17] Because he was claiming to be not a god not a Son of God but God himself.
[29:23] He was claiming to be the great I AM that all good Jews worshiped all their centuries.
[29:31] God’s amazing grace page forty three
[29:34] All through the pages of sacred history
[29:38] where the dealings of God with His chosen people are recorded,
[29:41] there are burning traces of the great I AM. That’s true. All the way through the Old Testament.
[29:47] We know that name mostly as Jehovah,
[29:50] which is a transliteration but wrongly done of Yahweh
[29:55] which is the noun form of the I AM the verb
[29:59] All of those titles or names mean the same thing.
[30:02] All the communion, listen, all the communion
[30:06] between heaven and the fallen race had been through Christ in the Old Testament.
[30:11] All those statements, the Lord has spoken to Jeremiah, the Lord has spoken to
[30:17] Isaiah, Ezekiel, is through Christ.
[30:20] Christ is the Yahweh, the Jehovah, the I AM of the Old Testament.
[30:25] She continues Christ is the Alpha and the Omega the first and the last.
[30:30] So remember whenever you read about Yahweh or Jehovah in the Old Testament
[30:35] your reading about Jesus Christ.
[30:36] Let’s just take one sample of one verse in the Old Testament
[30:40] Isaiah chapter forty and verse twenty eight. Isaiah forty and verse twenty eight.
[30:46] This again is describing and when as you probably know
[30:50] that in the King James Version of the Bible when the word LORD is in capital letters.
[30:55] It is a transliteration of Yahweh.
[30:58] The noun form of I AM. Alright so in verse twenty eight Isaiah chapter forty verse twenty eight
[31:06] Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God,
[31:12] the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is a weary,
[31:19] there is no searching of his understanding.
[31:21] Notice the everlasting God Yahweh the creator of the ends of the earth.
[31:27] Ellen White has just informed us that’s Jesus Christ.
[31:31] Jesus Christ is the everlasting God of the Old Testament.
[31:36] The Yahweh. The I AM that led them through all of their wilderness wanderings
[31:41] and brought them into the promised land.
[31:43] A few other statements from Ellen White’s writings Desire of Ages page 530.
[31:48] In Christ is life, original, borrowed, underived. That kind of nails it all down doesn’t it?
[31:58] Original life not borrowed from other source.
[32:03] Not derived from another being. Not brought into existence at some point in prehistory.
[32:11] Evangelism page 615.
[32:14] Christ is the pre-existent, self-existent key word self-existent Son of God.
[32:21] He assures us that there never was a time when he was not in close fellowship
[32:27] with the eternal God. He is the eternal, self-existent Son.
[32:32] Put those two together: eternal self-existent.
[32:36] Bible Commentary volume five 1115.
[32:41] From all eternity Christ was united with the Father. From all eternity.
[32:49] Review and Herald, April 5, 1906. April 5, 1906.
[32:55] Christ was God essentially and in the highest sense.
[33:00] He was with God from all eternity.
[33:04] In the highest sense. He was not a lesser god.
[33:08] He was not a derived God.
[33:10] Now patriarchs and prophets pages 63 and 64 tells us something very important about
[33:17] why this is essential. Only one equal with God could make atonement for the fallen race.
[33:23] Only a law giver could redeem those who had broken the law.
[33:29] Only the Creator of life could redeem those who had been created.
[33:33] You see if Christ had received life from the Father at some point in eternity
[33:40] which is what is being taught by this movement today.
[33:43] That he received life from the father at some point in eternity.
[33:47] If his life was borrowed or derived from the Father.
[33:51] If he was dependent on the Father for his very existence.
[33:56] He would not have existed if the father had not brought him into existence.
[34:00] Then he was not God in the highest sense. And he is not eternal.
[34:06] And he could not make atonement for the fallen race and redeem mankind.
[34:11] If Christ was not fully God.
[34:15] God would have been punishing an innocent third party
[34:19] who had also been created or brought into existence by God.
[34:24] Only one who is immortal in his very nature can offer everlasting life to the human race.
[34:31] And by the way I’m sure you know, that the term only begotten son is a faulty translation.
[34:39] Let’s check that out if there’s any question about that at all.
[34:44] Hebrews chapter eleven verse seventeen.
[34:47] Hebrews chapter eleven verse seventeen. Hebrews 11:17
[34:54] By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac:
[34:59] and he that had received the promises offered up his what only begotten son.
[35:04] That’s wrong on two levels isn’t it?
[35:08] Number one. Isaac was not the only begotten.
[35:12] He was not even the first born and yet he is called his only begotten Son do you
[35:19] see why the word has to mean unique one of a kind special.
[35:24] None other like Isaac. He was the son of promise he was not the son of human activity.
[35:31] He was the son of a miracle and that’s what one of a kind means uniquely special.
[35:38] One of a kind. And by the way there is another text which is interesting
[35:43] doesn’t use the phrase only begotten. It’s in Acts chapter thirteen.
[35:47] Acts chapter thirteen and verse thirty three. Acts 13 and verse 33
[35:54] which is talking about Jesus. God have fulfilled the same unto us their children
[36:00] in that he raised the Jesus again as it is also written in the second psalm
[36:04] this thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
[36:10] Now that’s not talking about his birth is it?
[36:12] That’s talking about his resurrection. Raised up again this day have I begotten thee.
[36:19] So a case could be made that the word begotten
[36:21] has as much to do with his resurrection as with his birth.
[36:25] And that’s an interesting use of this word begotten again.
[36:30] I think it’s more than interesting that an individual called Mary of Agrede.
[36:35] A visionary Catholic nun in the 1600’s said that the word was conceived
[36:41] by eternal generation from the Father and Christ was born before time existed.
[36:46] And that is exactly what is being taught by the present anti Trinity movement
[36:52] Interesting. Taken directly from Catholic understanding’s here
[36:56] Also why the way the Orthodox the Eastern Orthodox position.
[36:59] So I have a suggestion. A suggestion. Take it for what it’s worth.
[37:05] To resolve some apparent contradictions that we even find in scripture.
[37:09] It seems like it. The nature of the Godhead is not the central theme in Scripture.
[37:16] God has never just spelled it out clearly and precisely even throughout all of Scripture.
[37:23] Where it is discussed in the very few places it is discussed
[37:27] it reveals three equal beings all existing from eternity.
[37:32] One in purpose and mind in ways impossible for created beings.
[37:37] But it is not a major theme of scripture. It appears here and there in spots.
[37:42] So we will move to the next point.
[37:45] The central issue in Scripture is not the nature of the Godhead
[37:52] but the function of the Godhead. What they do.
[37:57] And it is always always in descending order from the Father to the Son to the Holy Spirit.
[38:05] It is always descending in that order.
[38:10] This is the way apparently that the Godhead wants all created beings to approach Him
[38:15] Directly to the Father? No. Through the Holy Spirit. Through Christ to the Father.
[38:21] The Father is the ultimate authority. Jesus is the visible representative to created beings
[38:28] The Holy Spirit is the invisible presence working on the hearts of created beings.
[38:34] You know if we’re confused today.
[38:36] Even the angels were confused before sin ever entered the universe.
[38:42] The Father had to explain to the angels in angelic session
[38:48] the difference between Christ and Lucifer.
[38:51] When Lucifer was challenging the place of Christ in the Godhead.
[38:55] Since both Lucifer and Christ had similar functions
[38:59] they represented God to the created beings, it was easy for even angels to say
[39:04] there both the same aren’t they? They do the same work. Maybe Lucifer is right.
[39:10] So if there was a misunderstanding in heaven.
[39:13] May we be forgiven to have problems today, figuring out the mystery.
[39:19] The mystery of the Godhead. Here’s the point.
[39:23] Christ always directs attention to the Father not to himself.
[39:27] He always points to the Father. He takes a secondary role to the Heavenly Father
[39:32] then the Holy Spirit always directs attention to Christ
[39:37] And the Father He takes the third role almost invisible most of the time.
[39:44] So again. Equal in nature but unequal in function and rank as they relate to created beings.
[39:54] That’s the best I think that we can do on this subject to try to understand it.
[40:00] All right let’s move to the next point.
[40:02] The Godhead apparently has chosen to reveal itself gradually to the human race.
[40:10] Apparently this has never been one of the crucial issues for the redemption of mankind
[40:15] to understand exactly the relations of the three beings.
[40:19] In the Old Testament Yahweh is that personal name for God. Jehovah.
[40:26] And the name is interchangeable for the Father and the Son.
[40:30] Your never quite sure unless you really dig deep.
[40:34] Is it the Father speaking or is it the Son speaking because it doesn’t really matter.
[40:38] The name is interchangeable. The Holy Spirit.
[40:41] If you would of asked a person in Isaiah’s time, what do you know about the Holy Spirit.
[40:45] I think you would of gotten a blank stare.
[40:48] I don’t think much was known about the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament.
[40:52] Yes the spirit was moving on the face of the waters
[40:55] but that wasn’t precisely clear either.
[40:58] There are indications of plurality in the Old Testament more than one.
[41:03] But the emphasis is always on one God the Lord our God is one Lord.
[41:09] The great Shema of the Israelite people.
[41:11] That was their focus. The Lord our God is one.
[41:15] Now in the New Testament more revelation came to bear
[41:19] because Christ had now come down in bodily form.
[41:22] So we have the Word of God, the Son of God.
[41:25] And then Christ reveals to us another aspect ,the Holy Spirit who is our comforter
[41:31] better translated advocate one who stands for us. One who is our lawyer if you will.
[41:37] The emphasis is on three beings in one Godhead descending in rank and function
[41:43] from the Father to the Son to the Holy Spirit.
[41:46] That’s what the New Testament reveals.
[41:48] Early Seventh Day Adventists. Were they concerned with this issue. Not at all.
[41:55] They were concerned with the sanctuary in the twenty three hundred days.
[41:59] That was the issue of the early pioneers. They were concerned with the Bible not tradition.
[42:06] The Word of God as the authority not the traditions of the fathers.
[42:10] They were concerned with the Seventh day Sabbath and the law of God.
[42:14] There was very little study or even revelation from God through Ellen White about the Trinity
[42:21] if you want to use that term. Very little discussed about that by our pioneers.
[42:26] And as I said earlier the Trinity in the early 1800’s it was a mixture of the Bible,
[42:32] medieval philosophy and the early church councils.
[42:35] There was a group during that time before Adventism came into existence
[42:41] called the Christian Connection.
[42:43] They were absolutely certain that the Trinity was a Catholic doctrine
[42:48] and unscriptural and guess what?
[42:51] Joseph Bates and James White were members of the Christian Connection
[42:56] and because the Trinity apparently made the Father and the Son identical
[43:02] it was rejected by our pioneers.
[43:06] Here’s just a sample from Joseph Bates on what he wrote on this.
[43:09] He said: respecting the Trinity, I concluded that it was an impossibility
[43:14] for me to believe that the Lord Jesus Christ
[43:16] the Son of the Father was also the Almighty God the Father one and the same being.
[43:22] I said to my father. If you can convince me that we are one in this sense that
[43:28] you are my father and I your son and also that I am your father and you my son
[43:32] then I can believe in the Trinity. That is why they objected to the Trinity doctrine.
[43:39] It made them really just one essence with three different faces
[43:44] shining out at different times and the pioneers said no that’s not what the Bible teaches.
[43:51] That is not correct.
[43:52] So apparently God was satisfied to leave it this way.
[43:59] Not make it an issue among the pioneers. Not get everything corrected at the same time
[44:04] until about the 1890’s. And by the way
[44:07] the 1890’s was the period of time when
[44:10] the last generation was supposed to be formed to go home. Translation.
[44:15] Maybe God said this is the last thing I need to get clear in your minds.
[44:20] Ellen White was in Australia during those years.
[44:23] W.W. Prescott visited her in Australia. He had developed a new style of evangelism
[44:30] based not on doctrines primarily but on righteousness by faith on the character of God. [44:35] Guess where that came from? The 1888 message of Jones and Waggoner.
[44:39] Prescott began to preach this way and he spent time working with Ellen White in Australia
[44:45] and he began to question some of our pioneers teachings
[44:49] on the nature and the Deity of Jesus Christ because
[44:52] our pioneers believed Christ had a beginning. He did not exist from all eternity.
[44:57] And he began to question this. A.G. Daniels the president of the General Conference
[45:03] supported his new direction and this was the very same time
[45:06] when Ellen White was putting together Desire of Ages
[45:09] and in that book she differed sharply with our pioneers on the pre-existence of Jesus Christ.
[45:17] M.L. Andreasen. He had just become a Seventh-day Adventist four years earlier.
[45:24] He said that some of the leaders doubted that Ellen White had really written quote:
[45:31] “In Him was life original, unborrowed, underived.”
[45:34] Nah, she couldn’t of written that. That, that’s not true.
[45:38] He derived life from the Father. He didn’t have original life.
[45:43] She couldn’t have written that. So M.L. did what some others hadn’t been willing to do.
[45:49] In 1902 he made a special trip out to California to Elmshaven
[45:53] where Ellen White was residing at that time to investigate this statement:
[46:00] “Original, unborrowed, underived”.
[46:03] And he actually found these statements in her own handwriting.
[46:07] This was not a forgery. This was not an insertion.
[46:11] This was not something that someone had gotten into her writings without her knowing it
[46:16] In her own handwriting he found this statement
[46:19] that I referred to earlier. And that was enough for M.L. Andreasen from that point on.
[46:26] And because of her influence and the new study on the Godhead,
[46:31] the Adventist understanding of the Godhead took a different direction from the pioneers.
[46:37] That’s just a fact. That’s what happened.
[46:39] That is not the same as our earliest pioneers including James White taught in the early years.
[46:46] Why so late? Ah, God has priorities.
[46:51] He knows we can’t handle everything all at the same time
[46:54] so he starts us out not with theology in the 1840’s the message was publishing.
[47:00] Get the Word out. Get the message out.
[47:03] Bright beams of light shining over the whole earth.
[47:05] Publishing was the message of the 1840’s.
[47:08] In the 1850’s it was church organization.
[47:12] You can’t just go on loosely with everyone doing willy nilly what is right in their own eyes.
[47:17] We have to be organized. We have to be a body.
[47:19] That was the 1850’s.
[47:21] Health reform in the 1860’s more important than all of the doctrines apparently
[47:28] Health reform in the 1860’s. The body is a temple of the Holy Ghost.
[47:33] What we’re doing this weekend is combining some theology with some health reform
[47:37] that’s coming up shortly. And that’s crucially important.
[47:41] Then in the 1880’s. What God choose next? Righteousness by faith.
[47:47] Christ in you the hope of glory.
[47:50] Not being so doctrinally centered even though doctrines are hugely important
[47:55] but not being so centered on them we lost focus of the one
[47:59] who is behind and in all of the doctrines and our relationship to him.
[48:04] God simply paced the introduction of new truth to preserve unity in the church.
[48:10] So the church wouldn’t fracture at very various points in its existence.
[48:14] So very simply, the character of God was more important than the nature of God.
[48:21] And God simply said we’ll let that one go for a while.
[48:25] Don’t make that an issue of contention. So we come to our last point.
[48:32] Now some and remember who I’m talking about the faithful Adventists.
[48:38] The really serious Adventists who are preparing for the second coming of Christ
[48:42] are advocating a return to our pioneers anti Trinity position.
[48:47] and here is the most dangerous aspect.
[48:51] Is the question raised by its chief advocate.
[48:55] Did Ellen White write all that has been published under her name?
[49:00] Did Ellen White write all that has been published under her name. Oh my friends.
[49:10] This is something we really really need to think through carefully.
[49:14] Whenever we find something in her writings which contradicts our beliefs
[49:19] about some position we have taken,
[49:22] we find some acceptable reason to set her aside.
[49:25] That can apply to any one of us at any time.
[49:30] This my friends is the heart of higher criticism of the Bible.
[49:34] Well you don’t really have to believe in the literal creation record of Genesis one.
[49:39] It could have happened over many millions of years.
[49:42] You don’t have to believe that Jesus was born of a virgin.
[49:45] That was just something to make it exciting and special for the disciples.
[49:50] Higher criticism says we can reinterpret what the original inspired authors said
[49:58] because it just doesn’t fit with what we know today.
[50:01] Same thing applies to Ellen White my friends.
[50:05] If it doesn’t fit with our cherished preconceptions.
[50:09] And that makes her writings of none effect.
[50:12] Doesn’t deny her writings remember I said these are all people who believe solidly
[50:17] in the writings of Ellen White but not her full authority
[50:22] making her writings of none effect because we are picking and choosing
[50:29] those statements which fit our preconceptions
[50:32] and setting aside those statements which do not under some pretext.
[50:36] And there are many pretexts here.
[50:38] Well, Ellen White was young when she wrote that.
[50:41] My teacher when I was in school a long time ago was asked that very same question.
[50:46] How old was Ellen White when she wrote this particular statement a student asked him
[50:50] and he scratched his English beard a little bit and he said
[50:55] How old was the Holy Spirit just then.
[50:57] Some say you set aside her later writings because they’re not as pure as the earlier writings. [51:07] Great Controversy after 1858 can’t be trusted etc…etc…
[51:12] Some say that people inserted things into her writings without her knowing it.
[51:18] Do you think God would allow that in the Bible?
[51:22] That there would be untruth inserted into his word so that we couldn’t tell the difference.
[51:27] If God is going to speak to us at all will He not protect what he has spoken.
[51:32] Or else we’re saying that God isn’t a very good handler of truth
[51:37] and Ellen White isn’t a very good handler of what God revealed to her.
[51:41] Here is a statement that someone said
[51:46] Ellen White was inspired by God in almost all her writings
[51:51] but either she or someone messed with her writings.
[51:54] Colloquial but that’s what is being taught right on this subject.
[52:00] That means that everyone is free to pick and choose whatever agrees with our opinions.
[52:06] The essence of higher criticism. So I’m going to suggest
[52:11] that perhaps even conservative Seventh-day Adventists
[52:15] will have to decide between the authority of God and the authority of men.
[52:20] It’s not just liberal, it’s conservative Adventists who have opinions too
[52:27] that they do not want to give up when faced with clear inspired statements.
[52:32] So those are the reasons at least some of them
[52:35] why I believe that there is a three part Godhead.
[52:38] That Jesus Christ is eternal on the same level as the Father
[52:43] and that our pioneers had good reasons for rejecting the Catholic version of the Trinity
[52:52] which is way different from the Biblical version of the Godhead.
[52:57] And we do not have to apologize for believing in a very mysterious doctrine.
[53:02] Three persons one God. Can’t explain it. Can’t fathom it.
[53:10] It’s a mystery but it is a divinely given mystery.
[53:16] Not simply something that we’re trying to avoid.
[53:20] We are trying to grapple with it. We’re trying to understand it
[53:24] and make as much sense as we possibly can about it.
[53:28] Now I just want to say this. This is a seminar so
[53:32] if there was something which I was unclear about
[53:35] and you needed to get some more information. Raise your hand right now
[53:38] and I’d be delighted to see what I can do. Yes. Here’s one right here.

Question & Answer Period

[53:42] Oh a copy. All right. Is there anything that I didn’t explain too clearly
[53:48] and you would like to have a better explanation about?
[53:52] Yes.
[53:54] Audience: Number one on the screen. You were mentioning there’s a hierarchy of rolls. [54:04] Priebe: Function. Father to Son to Holy Spirit.
[54:07] Audience: I was a little uncomfortable with that. My thinking is
[54:13] there is quite a strong emphasis on the equality of Christ and maybe you could elaborate on that a little bit.
[54:19] Priebe: Again I’m going to go back to the same thing that happened in the
[54:22] angelic host when Christ and Lucifer were doing exactly as the angel saw the same work
[54:28] and there was question as to why Christ should be in the Godhead and Lucifer should not [54:33] since they were both representing Christ to the angels.
[54:37] So if there was that kind of representation. The father is there as you have probably read.
[54:43] No one can see the father and live.
[54:46] Doesn’t say that about Christ.
[54:47] Because we have seen Christ in human form and even the inspired writers like John
[54:56] saw Christ after He had been taken to heaven in his glory
[54:59] and that was very impressive but they didn’t see the Father.
[55:02] So there is something different there
[55:05] in the way the Father and the Son relate to created beings.
[55:09] The Father in light unapproachable the Son revealing as much as could be understood or
[55:15] accepted or tolerated by created beings and the Holy Spirit impressing that upon the mind.
[55:20] So I think that Jesus Christ is doing a work which the Father does not do.
[55:27] which means that he is representing and he’s revealing the Father
[55:31] and he would on earth he would say there is none good but the Father
[55:36] and of course how can that apply. Jesus was as good as anyone could ever be
[55:40] But he would always point to the Father.
[55:42] And he said that I came to reveal the Father.
[55:46] So that’s why I think that there is a difference in function
[55:50] In the way they relate to created beings.
[55:52] One more.
[55:54] Good point hierarchy is not a good term.
[55:59] a different task that’s right. Like a C.E.O. and a C.F.O. chief financial officer.
[56:09] Once again we’re getting into parallels that don’t work but that’s
[56:12] a little help. Different functions different needs. You know
[56:15] I guess if we really believe that there is this three being Godhead
[56:19] that I’m glad that they kind of boil it down to one as the ultimate Father that we pray to
[56:25] because I have a hard time talking to three different beings at the same time.
[56:28] And I think that the Godhead realized that we need to focus on the Father
[56:32] make our prayers to the Father in the name of Jesus Christ.
[56:35] Roger.
[56:39] Audience: The number four up here.
[56:42] I like to think of it as different functions of the Godhead. God is love.
[56:48] and one element of love is humility.
[56:51] OK
[56:51] It’s hard to wrap my mind around the Holy Spirit being divine and still be humble
[56:58] But the Holy Spirit points to Christ and Christ points to the Father.
[57:03] There’s a humility in the Godhead and then he said that we were
[57:08] created in His image and then he translates that
[57:11] into our relational things in our families and everything. So I think that
[57:17] I would like the word different better than unequal.
[57:21] Priebe: All right. Very good good point. Now I would just make this point too
[57:25] If we think of the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit is as much God as the Father and the Son are
[57:32] of the same nature, same qualities you hardly read anything about Him in the Bible
[57:40] Just a snatch here and a snatch there and a verse here and a verse over there.
[57:44] He doesn’t describe himself. He is the one who inspires the prophets.
[57:47] Couldn’t He have told us a lot of things about what He was.
[57:50] But he doesn’t talk about Himself. He totally ignores Himself. Total humility.
[57:56] If you want to put it in those terms. Total humility.
[57:59] And saying I won’t even talk about myself. You won’t know much about me.
[58:02] I don’t know about you but
[58:05] I’m waiting to see what the Holy Spirit looks like when we get to heaven.
[58:09] I don’t know. It’s a mystery.
[58:11] And Ellen White warns us away from speculation on that point.
[58:15] A question over here. Right over there. All right.
[58:18] Audience: I just want to be sure about something
[58:22] because you hear this alot from pastors that when He said let us
[58:29] make man in our image. Let us make man in our image.
[58:34] So they were all three there together.
[58:37] But when Adam and Eve sinned
[58:40] and the decision was made i’ll go down for man.
[58:44] Pastors say that God decided to come down to earth as a babe in the form of man
[58:57] and called himself Jesus.
[58:59] Allright. It depends and what is meant by that.
[59:04] It can be probably not too bad but again God the one the being we call God
[59:12] in three aspects three persons three individuals.
[59:17] God did decide to come down to earth.
[59:19] Immanuel means God with us.
[59:23] That’s the name that was one of the names given to Jesus.
[59:27] But again it was only one of those three it wasn’t all three that came to earth.
[59:32] So what was one the Son of God because he was the one that had that function that role
[59:39] that purpose that he came down to this earth.
[59:42] But again it was God. God was Jesus.
[59:47] So there is a truth there but it needs to be carefully explained.
[59:51] That it was one being of the three that made the decision to be part of the human family
[59:56] forever by the way to retain his human nature.
[59:59] He’ll never be the same as he was before. He’ll be part of the human family for all eternity
[1:00:04] So in a very significant way he will have not quite the same nature as he had before or
[1:00:09] the Father or the Holy Spirit for the rest of eternity.
[1:00:12] That’s the mind boggling thing.
[1:00:14] Audience: Did he go back to the 100% divine?
[1:00:17] Priebe: He did but he retains his human nature and there’s a mystery.
[1:00:21] What does that mean?
[1:00:22] Did he send the Holy Spirit because he couldn’t be in all places at the same time.
[1:00:25] All of these are mysteries
[1:00:27] and so something is not the same as it was before.
[1:00:31] Last one by the way will close now.
[1:00:35] Audience: Godhead is perfect harmony.
[1:00:40] The son carries out what the Father says.
[1:00:43] Yes
[1:00:44] The Holy Spirit is sent by the Son.
[1:00:46] Matthew 12:32 and whosoever speaketh a word against the Son it shall be forgiven him but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven him.
[1:00:57] neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
[1:01:00] Priebe: That’s an incredible statement.
[1:01:01] Yeah. If you reject the teachings of Christ you may be misunderstanding
[1:01:11] him. The Jews may have prejudiced against him but if you aren’t listening to the Holy Spirit
[1:01:16] there’s nothing more I can do for you. That’s amazing.
[1:01:19] All right we’re going to have to close. I do have
[1:01:22] just a few. I don’t have too many.
[1:01:25] I have a few compilations of some of the important Ellen White statements on this.
[1:01:30] So if you want one of these come up after the meeting
[1:01:32] and I’ll share them with you as long as they last.
[1:01:35] Also. Tomorrow I’m going to be talking about another new light issue
[1:01:43] which is very strong right now in the Seventh Day Adventist Church.
[1:01:47] It’s called the feast day movement.
[1:01:49] I have several of these presentations. I also talk about the Yahweh issue,
[1:01:55] the sacred name. I talk about the futurism idea the aspects of
[1:02:00] The book of Revelation and Daniel into the future
[1:02:02] day for day instead of day for year
[1:02:05] but I’m not going to be talking about those I have D.V.D.’s on those of
[1:02:08] some of you want to take a look at those. I have a D.V.D. set
[1:02:12] on new light for Seventh-day Adventists
[1:02:14] Tomorrow will focus on the feast day issue
[1:02:17] in the same way we dealt here with the Trinity issue.
[1:02:21] So that’s where we’re heading tomorrow. I hope you join us
[1:02:26] and we will have another study time together.
[1:02:29] Now I just want to let you know that we’re going to have a fifteen minute break
[1:02:33] and then my son gets to talk to you.
[1:02:36] How many of you have seen his presentations in past years.
[1:02:40] Quite a few of you. All right so you know what’s coming.
[1:02:43] He’s the naturalist in our family.
[1:02:45] and he takes us down from the high theological mountain
[1:02:48] down to the level of the second book of nature where
[1:02:51] we can all relate to these cute cuddly little creatures and squirmy little creatures
[1:02:56] out there and what they tell us about our Creator God.
[1:02:59] and today’s presentation as you probably saw in the outline
[1:03:02] is called the God given gift of animal architecture
[1:03:07] and that’s a very interesting subject
[1:03:10] how in the world did animals figure out how to build homes?
[1:03:13] And he’s going to talk about that and can they pass on that knowledge to their children?
[1:03:18] This is how you do it. You put the stick in here and then you do that
[1:03:21] like we do with our children
[1:03:23] and so this is one of the powerful evidences of creation that denies evolutionary theory
[1:03:30] and by the way you need to be here in the first five minutes when he lays out the premise
[1:03:35] because that sort of focuses the whole presentation
[1:03:38] if you miss that you’re kind of gonna be at sea in the presentation.
[1:03:41] So right at eleventh at eleven forty five is the time when he will be presenting
[1:03:46] and don’t miss those first five minutes is crucial to understanding the presentation.
[1:03:50] Let’s pray. Father in heaven as we have studied one of your great mysteries
[1:03:56] as we have tried to understand what we can barely, feebly touch.
[1:04:02] Oh Lord I just pray that we will see the important thing
[1:04:06] that our God is a loving caring just God
[1:04:10] that Jesus Christ the representative of the Father
[1:04:14] is the one who shows us the character of the Father and
[1:04:18] may we never never turn away the Holy Spirit’s impressions upon our hearts
[1:04:23] and our minds.
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End of transcript.